Dr. Sheila Carroll: Encouraging Healthy Eating Habits in Kids

What if the key to your family's health lies in the food choices you make today? This week, we're joined by Dr. Sheila Carroll, a board-certified pediatrician and obesity medicine doctor, who shares the compelling story of her shift from traditional Western medicine to a focus on lifestyle and obesity medicine. Driven by her own childhood struggles with obesity and inspired by her father's medical journey, Dr. Carroll moved from prescribing medications to advocating for significant dietary changes, such as reducing flour and sugar intake. Her personal anecdotes reveal the drastic improvements in her health and highlight the transformative role of family involvement in nurturing healthier habits for children.

Ever wondered how much hidden sugar is in your pantry? Dr. Carroll educates us on the surprising amounts of sugar found in common foods like spaghetti sauce and granola bars and stresses the critical role parents play in monitoring their children's sugar intake. She underscores the importance of becoming educated label readers to prevent long-term metabolic damage in children. Through gentle education and proactive lifestyle adjustments, families can work together to foster healthier futures. Dr. Carroll also explains the potential benefits and concerns surrounding new weight loss medications like Ozempic, particularly for young children, and the necessity of pairing them with solid lifestyle changes.

Parents have the power to spearhead change in school food policies and the quality of nutrition available to children. In this episode, we discuss how mothers, in particular, can drive initiatives to remove unhealthy food options from schools and enhance hot lunch programs. Dr. Carroll shares practical strategies for making whole foods more appealing to children, such as involving them in grocery shopping and persistently offering a variety of healthy options. By leading by example, parents can empower their children to make healthier choices, fostering long-term benefits for their metabolic health. Join us to learn how to inspire your family towards a healthier lifestyle, one step at a time.

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Transcript

FLORENCE: 0:02

Welcome everybody. Welcome to an interview today with Dr Sheila Carroll, who is a board-certified pediatrician as well as an obesity medicine doctor. She has now gone solo. She has sort of moved out of the mainstream medical world to offer her services. You know as now, obesity medicine is, you know as now obesity medicine, lifestyle coach, weight loss coach. And she especially has a passion for working with children. But she knows that if she's going to work with children, she needs to work with the whole family. She needs to work with mom, she needs to work with the parents, who are the ones making decisions about the kind of lifestyle that their children are going to live and the kinds of foods they're going to have access to and be encouraged to fall in love with. So welcome, dr Carol.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 0:51

Thank you, thanks so much for having me.

FLORENCE: 0:55

So let's just go back to what inspired you to pursue a career as a doctor.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 1:02

Oh, I think that my biggest influence was my dad, who was a physician too. He's now almost 91. So he, he was a physician, you know. He became a physician in his early 20s and then, when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I think he guided me towards being a doctor, you know. So fulfilling for him. And he found the science of medicine. He was an oncologist really early on in the early, in the early 70s, when you know there were, I think he said when he started there was only, you know, four or five chemotherapeutic agents, so four or five total drugs to treat cancer. So he saw cancer, the evolution of cancer medicine through a long time period, and anyways, he's always had a really big influence on my life and I'm sure I became a doctor because of him.

FLORENCE: 1:58

Yes, yes, yes, and then what inspired you to be a doctor that now has sort of stepped out of just sort of the world of pills and surgery as sort of the main sort of approach to helping people restore their health and do more alternative sort of lifestyle medicine? What inspired that shift?

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 2:28

that shift. This has been a long time coming for me because I grew up with my, like I said, my dad and very allopathic. Allopathic, very Western medicine approach, where we didn't really view food as medicine. I never learned about that as a child. I didn't learn about that as a as a in med school or even in my. I was a pediatrician, been a pediatrician for about 23 years. But my own personal experiences have really led me well, my personal experiences, plus all my years taking care of patients, and I'm seeing patients prescribing medications to patients, but they're really not getting better and so they're just on these medications, whether it's for anxiety or depression or sleep sometimes, or behaviors, different childhood behaviors. So I you know working and then and then my own experience.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 3:27

I was a overweight child. I was a child who carried extra weight since the time I was about nine or 10. And I was so struggling with that and kind of desperate to kind of be the same weight as my friends and I just couldn't get it done. I couldn't figure it out and and it wasn't like I didn't really feel like I was eating much more than everybody else, but just the choices that I was making, probably highly processed foods, foods with a lot of added sugars, the way those food choices were affecting my individual body, I just was storing weight really easily and so when I shifted but that didn't happen until I was 50. You know, I came across life coaching for weight loss actually or weight loss for doctors only group and the recommendation that that coach gave and that doctor she was a pediatrician too she recommended to her clients to give up flour and to give up sugar, at least temporarily, to see, to see how it, how it affected your body.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 4:42

When I first heard that I was like that's crazy, who eats like that? I literally was like. Heard that I was like that's crazy, who eats like that? I literally was like. I remember I was like that seems crazy, who could, how? So what would you eat and what would you do? And you know, yeah, I was like and and I and so I was. I didn't hear that and be like oh, sign me up.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 4:59

You know, I heard it and I was like, oh gosh, I don't know if that's for me and but I think I just kept it, planted, that seed, and it stayed with me and I, you know, I, I I saw other people doing it and so I thought, oh, I'll try it. You know, worst case scenario, it doesn't work, or worst case scenario, I don't like the way I feel, but I tried it and that was a light. That was a light bulb moment or a life shift or something super powerful for me when I realized the way that food choices we make and how we metabolize food and our bodies are able to use food. And so when I cut, well, for a little while, I completely eliminated flour and sugar and I really try to eat that way now, only because I really feel that I feel my best when I'm that way, and I lost 45 pounds and I just slept better, I had more energy, I just felt all around so much better, and this is a wide ranging story. So sorry.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 6:16

I'm all over the place, realized like this is this is what? Well, this is what my son, he'd feel as good as I feel If we cut back on some of the sugar he was getting or some of the processed foods he was getting. And I was just seeing more and more families struggling with extra weight, um, and kids at a younger age, um, becoming um, well, having metabolic problems, having changes in their blood pressure or their lipids or their liver, certainly their weight, and so that what the recommendation you know, lifestyle recommendations really would help. It would help these children, but the children don't have the cognitive ability and the tools to implement everything that needs to be done, but their parents do, and so spending time trying to educate parents help parents understand what's really going on, and the science is very complicated and I think people are still working out the science, but it can be made simple in a way, in general, that we can all understand.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 7:48

But I feel like educating the parents about the harm or the potential harm and then, okay, so how do we change? How do we change the parents first, because when the parent has changed and the parent is bought into how good they feel, then they're going to want that for their child, and so I couldn't make that happen in the office, in the traditional medical office where you have, you know, 15 minutes or 20 minutes with a family or 20 minutes with a family, and not every family is seeking that out. It can be a challenge to make lifestyle changes and you need help, you need time, you need support, and our current medical system is not really set up to help people in that way. Way, in my opinion, yeah, I, I understand.

FLORENCE: 8:46

I think we all agree, and it's it's that's the greatest tragedy. Travesty of this is that doctors get into medicine because they really want the fulfillment of genuinely helping people when they're struggling with their health. Because when your health goes, you realize it's number one, it is the most important thing. We want to feel good first and foremost. Everything else, you know, come second. And yet they're in these clinics where they know that their very first prescription should be a lifestyle change. And how many, how many, how many patients are are are sold short because they think, oh well, they won't do it. They just, everyone just wants a pill.

FLORENCE: 9:27

But is that true? Can we absolutely know that? A doctor, doctors are so powerful, so many people put so much faith in them that what their doctor says they will go and do. And if doctors have the confidence and have a system that supports them and suggesting lifestyle changes, let's just make it simple eat whole foods, get out for a little bit of movement every day, build on that, you know. Get to bed on time, you know, just start there. Just just start there and let's see what happens Right and come back.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 10:02

It sounds so simple yeah, yeah, right, and you will. You and your child will see benefits if you if not just, but if you are able to do that, and that would help every child and they can people?

FLORENCE: 10:20

yes, and we sell them short. I hear doctors say all the time oh well, my patients wouldn't do it. Can you know that's true for sure. If you, as a doctor, says, here's the deal, you need to make these lifestyle changes, keep it simple, get some support, have a list of people who do support work with the local medical district to sort of have the coaches or the diitians be available, you know, and then come back and we're going to see how far we can take it and if you need a medication after we'll talk. But people just go to medications. Doctors are pressured to do that. We think that patients aren't willing to make lifestyle changes because they're hard.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 11:01

Sure, they're hard, but what's harder is being on these medications and never getting better Right, like it's harder to be depressed and have have and feel bad and you know, yeah, one thing that was really powerful for me was I didn't realize how poorly or you know, not that I was feeling that bad, but I just felt so much better. I didn't even realize that I was feeling, that I didn't have as much energy as I otherwise could have. I wasn't, as you know, clear thinking as I could have been. So that's what I say a lot to people is you won't, you'll be so shocked how good you feel. You won't even realize that you were feeling badly, you know.

FLORENCE: 11:46

Yeah.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 11:47

So yeah, so I agree, I, I think we, I think you know, I know me, my friends, my doctor, friends we do try to suggest, we want people, we, we want to help people and um it it's. We do suggest lifestyle changes, um, and but there's not the support that it really really takes, because it kind of it takes a lot. It takes a lot of at first. At first you know, and then it gets easy, and then you're on your and then you're, you know, running down the road and you're feeling good with eating the right things and getting the right sleep, and then you're just on your own. It's easier.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 12:30

But at first to change.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 12:34

if you are someone who's a busy family, working multiple kids, yeah, yeah, I just have one child and I was super busy, you know, trying to get home and and cooking, um, cooking from scratch, cooking at home, not using a lot of processed foods. You know it's um, it does take effort, it's so worth it and it's so wonderful you know to when you can actually get it done. But it that kind of like first step, of like let's get started, Just do one thing to do one thing, you know, and that's what people really need support with.

FLORENCE: 13:17

Yes, yes, yes. And then they probably need to be reassured that that it, that it will pay off, right, that this is a brilliant and and life-changing commitment to sort of get into the kitchen and it's going to require women, it's going to require moms to to prioritize this and it's our, it's always been our job as women, always been our job to feed our babies, to care for our families, and it is the most, one of the most fulfilling jobs. Nothing feels worse to a mom than feeling like we're shortchanging our kids and our families and ourselves. Right, and so there's has to be, there's such a massive shift that has to happen. But I feel that bad for doctors too, because they're being shortchanged.

FLORENCE: 14:06

The pleasure of watching their clients, their patients, come back and go I'm down 50 pounds and I'm off you know you're deprescribing antidepressants Like that whole joy of really seeing people come alive and feel happy and healthy, so amazing. So let's talk a bit about working with families to be able to support children, Like. Well, let's just talk about what are you seeing in children, Like give us a snapshot of how much children are being affected by the food culture malfunction we're all caught up in.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 14:38

Okay, oh goodness, it's so profound. I'm here in the US, but I'm sure it's not that much different in Canada the pressure the kids are just exposed to so many processed foods and so much sugar all the time. Foods and so much sugar all the time. And because I think one thing is, parents don't realize where sugar lives in all of the foods spaghetti sauce, ketchup, barbecue sauce, I mean we could list, we could go on and on and on about things that you think might be healthy granola bars Might be healthy.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 15:24

Granola bars, yogurt fruit roll ups, yeah, yeah, like you know anything, even if it says organic and healthy on the labeling, the marketing, or you know all the kids cereals, if I. So one thing that parents can really do right off the bat to get an awareness before you even want to change anything know first. Okay, let's just look what's really happening here. Look, become a label reader, learn how to read the label, and what we're really looking for is amount of added sugars. If you just focus, you don't have to focus on the calories or anything like that for right now, but really just get a sense of how much sugar your child and you maybe are taking in. And it's pretty shocking the amount of. For example, like my son had a couple of his friends over the other day and they brought they were coming from a soccer camp and they one of the boys brought a Snapple, a smallish bottle, it didn't look very big, and then we checked the back and it had 36 grams of sugar in this Snapple juice. So the daily recommendation is about 25 grams of sugar for somebody who's two years old to 19 years old. And you know there's a lot of experts who are kind of like why are we even recommending that amount of sugar. Why are we saying it's okay to even have 25 grams of sugar when the data suggests that, you know, added sugars, especially the fructose component, is really damaging ourselves? It's damaging our mitochondria. Our ancient human bodies were not designed to handle the foods that have been created in a lab, you know, and have been generated. Uh, that we're all eating. All the time they're damaging our body and we don't even realize it. Um, we're all eating all the time they're damaging our body and we don't even realize it. We're seeing the effects down the down the line. You know, type two, pre diabetes, type two diabetes, fatty liver disease. You know there's obesity, pcos, so many metabolic dysfunction. But what it?

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 17:44

To me, for a child, the number one thing to do is to really, uh, try to wrap your arms around what you're eating, what the family is eating, and we can't expect kids. This is the other problem I had with the medical system was, you know, so, say, there's a 12 year old who's struggling with extra weight, and they say, okay, come back in six months. And so they, you know, so you get identified as having gaining weight too rapidly for your height. And then, okay, these are the interventions, come back in six months, and then the you know the kind of the expectation is that you talk to the child and you're talking to a 12 year old. I mean, the parents are there so they're listening, but sometimes the parents really are wanting you to be the one to tell the child. You know, like you know, okay, yes, I know that there's whatever cookies in the cupboard, but you really shouldn't be eating those, you.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 18:41

And so to me, you know, that's just that happened to me as a kid. You know, my doctor, my pediatrician he's this gruff old pediatrician he said to my mom um, you gotta get her stop eating. And I mean, it's just so horrible, right, like and and so, because I had that personal experience as a kid and I've struggled with my weight my whole life, you know I'm trying to gently, you know, first of all, tell kids like you are perfect the way you are. You don't need to change to be a more valuable human being. You are lovely, you are just so perfection, right. So perfection, right. And we might want to change some of the things how you're eating, how you're sleeping, how you're moving, so that we can help your physical body, like your cells and all the little chemicals running around in your body so you can stay healthy for as long as possible.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 19:43

You know, and a 12 year old or you know, any age kid, even teenagers, they can understand a little bit of that, but not enough to nail it down. Bring it home, make the changes, like do the things that need to be done on the daily basis, and so who I really needed to be talking to was the mom or the dad or the parents. You know who's ever in charge and like OK, what are the changes that you can make as the parent? Because you can only change what you control. You know, so you control what you buy and bring into the house. That doesn't mean you never buy. You know foods that your child loves to eat, or treats, or what you know.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 20:27

You don't have to go whole hog. You know one way or the other to begin with, but the parent really needs to understand that this is, or this is, such an opportunity for them to help their child, to help their child, and if they don't step in and try to change their lifestyle, try to educate. They need to become educated themselves about the food and how it's affecting their body and then pass that education on in a gentle way as their child is aging and becoming more and more cognitively developed as their prefrontal cortex develops. So you pass all of that onto your kids. If parents aren't doing that, they're essentially kicking that can down the road and waiting. Then the child is eventually becomes an adult and has to figure it out on their own. But meanwhile they have incurred you know X number of years of metabolic potentially damage to their bodies that they otherwise could have avoided. So prevention is kind of the big thing or a big thing, but you know it's a little bit of a tough sell sometimes to parents.

FLORENCE: 21:40

Yes, and I remember, you know, when I was, when I I was a mom and my kid was young and I I had a sugar-free pregnancy mostly. I had one piece of pumpkin pie in October. I felt terribly sick, but the rest of it I was a whole food woman. And so I knew right out of the gate that I really wanted to try and raise my child as whole food as possible to protect her from the ravages of sugar. To protect her from the ravages of sugar, partly because I knew that it wasn't great for her body, but partly because I knew I was truly on the sugar addiction spectrum and I didn't want to set her up for a love. I wanted her to fall in love with whole foods and not even want the junk.

FLORENCE: 22:18

But everywhere I turned she was being fed, offered junk food, processed junk foods. It was really discouraging. But I heard over and over Florence you know what you're doing is wrong, it's dangerous. Like you're going to give her an eating disorder. You know how do you deprive your kid of ice cream? Like what kind of, what kind of woman would do that to her child? And I just think this is insane. Like it's like we are doing our children. We're doing wrong by our children to say honey, I love you too much to give you that junk In our family. We just don't eat those foods outside the family. You know, if you get exposed to it you can choose to eat it, but in the home I and that was the rule I said to my family, I dropped, I dropped it. No, those foods don't come in this house. We are a whole food family. If you want to eat them outside, your house, fill your boots.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 23:10

I think that's such a wonderful. You know, I, I, I, um. Well, I tell my own son, but I also want to share with my clients. Like, I think it is a safety issue for our kids. You know, just like we wear a seatbelt or in the car, we make our kids wear a seatbelt in the car. We're not going to drive on the highway probably, probably not without our child buckled in, even if they they're like I don't want to buckle in, we're like no, you have to buckle in.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 23:34

You know, and same thing, like a bike helmet or all of the safety issues. I, I think. But the problem is that the knowledge that it's, you know, the food companies are so powerful and the marketing and oh it just. And what I say is like, well, just because something's being sold doesn't mean it's safe to eat. So, you know, the message I have with my son is that's not safe for you, that's not safe for yourselves. You are damaging yourselves by doing that and you're not going to well, drop dead immediately or feel a pain or something I said, but over time, because my dad and my mom are still living and doing so well, into their late 80s and early 90s. You know, and I so I say to my son do you want to be as old as papa someday, do you want to be as healthy as papa? And you know we need to start protecting yourselves right now so I use the term.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 24:36

you know, preserve and protect our health, and we do that for our kids in so many other ways you know alcohol education, drug education, vaping.

FLORENCE: 24:48

Yeah, her fee, like and sugar, is no less toxic and no less addictive.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 24:55

That's the message that it's. It's really hard to get that message out Because, well, the truth is not every doctor feels that way, and so there's so many mixed messages out there. But my, my approach is well, you just have to, you know, do your own education, do your own, do your own research If you want. Find people that you trust, talk about it, learn some of the you know, the basic, simple science, and then make a decision from there. I think most people know that these processed foods that can sit on a shelf for years and years and years without going bad, you know well. Why don't they go bad? Well, because bacteria can't metabolize. You know well. That's what's going on in our body too.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 25:46

When we when we eat those foods they're damaging our mitochondria, that you know. At the cellular level they're giving us problems.

FLORENCE: 25:55

Yes. And so we have all these junk foods that we're all brainwashed into thinking are safe to eat, part of a heart smart breakfast, are part of a balanced meal, that everything in moderation. So we've been heavily brainwashed. And then we also have had them engineered so they hit our bliss points. We feel really good on them.

FLORENCE: 26:15

So it feels really hard to imagine that something that feels so good and tastes so good could possibly be bad for us. Like there's a disconnect, like it's just no come on. And then we get sick, and then we come to our doctors and we say I don't feel great, or this is, you know, going sideways. And then we prescribe a pill and then the pills are toxic. The pharmaceuticals might manage symptoms, but they're not healing our metabolism, they're not restoring our bodies to health. And then we get sick from the pharmaceuticals and then down the road, you know, 10 years, maybe more, maybe less, we need another medication.

FLORENCE: 26:50

And it's just insanity. And the thing that drives me the most crazy the most crazy, dr Carol is that all of the players have profit motives, like they're predatorial, that they're making millions and billions. They and those of us that are trying to sort of bring in the message just no. Go back to basics, eat whole foods, get to bed a little earlier, go walk around the block right are are struggling to be heard to to cover our own bills and they're making trillions. So let's go to the topic of Ozempic, if you're okay to go there. I just saw an article today that it's estimated to be a 100% billion dollar industry $100 billion. So the big ag food companies are making millions and billions all the junk food companies, the pharmaceutical companies and we're paying the price, and so people are very excited about this. Ozempic, the GLP-1 and 2s Is that right? Is that how?

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 28:00

Yeah, GLP-1 agonist.

FLORENCE: 28:01

Yeah, right. So what do we need to know about Ozempic in your opinion?

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 28:06

Well, it's newish and it's a medication that's been created to kind of mimic a natural hormone that we already have, and so the medications work by decreasing people's hunger in multiple different ways. So people are just feeling less hungry and they're not eating as much. So, however, they might be still eating kind of not the greatest food Process junk. Yeah, kind of not the greatest food process junk. Yeah, exactly. You're just not eating as much of that Um and so you're losing. You're losing weight because of calorie reduction, because you're not eating that much Um and the. So, the, the. The problems with the medication, in my opinion, are well, it's a medication that you they're frankly telling people you can expect to never get off this medication. Once you start taking it, it works well. People drop a lot of weight, which is wonderful for people, and you know I mean so, I love I. You know, if you are really struggling with your weight, if you, you know weigh, it doesn't even matter what you weigh, but you've been struggling for years and you can find, make that happen for your body kind of naturally. You know, when people give up, or, you know, eat much, much less flour and sugar, it does well to use a general term kind of balance your hunger hormones and you're not as hungry and you're you, so the same thing happens. So so you eat less, so you end up losing weight in that same respect. The other thing that's going on with eating whole foods and and less processed foods is your insulin level is kept really low, which insulin is a fat storage hormone, so anytime you eat sugar or anything that makes your insulin go up, you're, by definition, blocking your fat storage from you're blocking. You're being used as a fuel for your body, and so that's what's happening for kids who are struggling with weight. Every time they eat something kid food it's just loaded with so much sugar. Their insulin is constantly up, so they're becoming insulin resistant and then that makes them hungry to eat more, and so it's a vicious, vicious cycle.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 30:49

But back to Ozempic. It was recently approved. I've never prescribed that medication. I am board certified in obesity medicine, so I if I, you know, took a job or whatever set my business up that I got credentialed to prescribe that medication. I could, and I know about it. But in January I think of 2023, the American Academy of Pediatrics wrote out some new guidelines about how to help kids who are really struggling with weight and between you know, if you combine what's considered overweight and what's considered obese versus via BMI for pediatrics, almost 30% of kids. That that encompasses 30% of kids, at least in the United States. So that's a large amount of kids. So there's there's qualifications you need to meet to even be considered eligible for this medication.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 31:46

But they said you couldn't take the medication as low as 12 years old. So some kids are going on this medication at 12 years old, and this is a newish medication. There's safety data, I think, out to five years. I might be wrong about that, but I'd have to double check. But clearly not having a growing child. You know. So say, you even started at 12, we don't have 10 years of safety data. So what is that going to do to a growing child from 12 to 22? And so then a 12-year-old child is committed to a medication for the rest of their life.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 32:24

It just makes absolutely no sense as a. It makes sense to me as a quick offer, as an offering. Let's get started and at the same time, learn. You need to start shifting the way you're eating. You need to start shifting the food choices the family is making. You need to start. You know all the lifestyle things so that when you you get some really good, you know fast results or quick results from using the medication and get off of it. But when you get off of it, now you've. Now you're a person who eats really well, you know, knows how to eat in a way that serves your body and is gonna keep you at a healthy weight, you know, and that that's what I would hope I people that's would be in my. That's the best case scenario for me. With these medications, let's give people some help for sure, if they need it, but I don't. I mean I think you know you can make these changes without ever using the medication. But kids a thousand percent need the help of their parents to do that.

FLORENCE: 33:29

Yes, yes. And if you, let's say, your appetite drops and you eat less and you lose weight, but you're still kind of eating highly processed foods, you're not getting the nutrition you need. So, yeah, I'm thin, but I maybe I'm still pre-diabetic, maybe I still have depression, maybe I still have anxiety, maybe I still have, maybe I'm still predisposed to potential for cancer. Like, as far as I know, ozempic does not. Yeah, I mean, it's microbiome is right, which is helping us detoxify. We're not heading in the direction of a happier, healthier life.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 34:03

We just might be thin yeah, and we might, you know you're, we're still having inflammation, chronic inflammation in our body right um, yeah, and headaches. And the problem too, I think they're seeing, is muscle mass.

FLORENCE: 34:17

People are losing a lot of muscle mass with that I've seen that, that that research, that that they're not just losing fat, they're losing money. Why, how is that?

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 34:26

Because I don't think that they're. You know, the body will just take. If the body's like deficient in calories, it will go to um burning. You know, what we really want for weight loss is we want our body to burn, our burn fat we will use our excess fat stores, and so we don't want our muscle mass, especially in a growing child.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 34:50

we and especially for women, who you know over time we really want to preserve our muscle mass because having muscles improves your metabolic health, makes you be able to tolerate sugar better, you know. It's just so beneficial in every single way. I guess to answer the question, I would have to say I'm not 100% sure why people are losing so much muscle in addition to their fat.

FLORENCE: 35:19

I just had an idea. What about this? Okay, mental theory. So if let's say they're not changing their diet and they're still like pretty high carbohydrate, fairly high processed foods, maybe they're still snacking, but they're just smaller amounts. Maybe they're grazing throughout the day. They're keeping their insulin really high, which turns off the fat burning switch. They can't burn their fat, so the only thing they can burn is potentially muscle.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 35:42

That sounds right. I mean that that could that. I should look that up. That that is true, you know.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 35:49

So when I lost 45 pounds, I, what I used I did, I wasn't really exercising and I was exercising a little bit just like my normal walking and stuff, but I wasn't lifting weights. And that's fine because I think you know, for me I wanted to focus on one thing at a time. Trying to add in too many things at once would have been a little bit too much for me at that time. But I know I lost muscle mass when I lost 45 pounds. It wasn't all just fat stores being lost. When I lost 45 pounds, it wasn't all just fat stores being lost.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 36:26

So now, several years, in several years, at this new stable weight I'm at that I like what I'm I'm doing is going to a weight lifting class a couple times a week to maintain my muscle. And you know my body composition is just shifting because I'm using my muscles trying to build a little bit of muscle and it's burning some fat. So I'm not when I'm losing weight now, you know, not that much anymore, but it's coming from. Actually I can see my body fat percentage going down and my muscle mass is actually staying the same or slightly up.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 36:59

So, you know that that's what we really want for those of us who have a weight to lose or anybody who has weight to lose. You want to lose this the stored adipose tissue, the stored fat and preserve your muscles, because that is what's going to keep you super healthy, you know, give you really good longevity going to keep you super healthy, you know, give you really good longevity, lifespan and health span, quality of life oh, my goodness, right, and so, oh, it's just.

FLORENCE: 37:29

And then, not to mention the cost of it. So, like I heard, it's like $1,200 a month and there's so many people running 1,200 a month.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 37:37

Is that right? I think it's more, I think it's more than that. Yeah, yeah, it depends. Yeah, yeah, it depends, probably it depends on your insurance. And, um, the other thing is it's kind of like so now you're dependent on this medication, what if there's a supply chain issue? You're just, you know, now you're you just stop taking it. I mean it's just, yeah, it's insane yeah, it's problematic.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 38:01

It's problematic someone's. We could be offering people a really viable solution. But we need to offer them a solution and help them. You know we can't just say you know you need to right, change, go change and figure it out by yourself like no, we need to, there is a better way and we'll help you with that, you know.

FLORENCE: 38:22

Yes, and I think that women are perfectly designed to help each other with that. If you, if the school council, at the local elementary school, all the moms were kind of awakening at the same time and finding the courage to dig deep to change school policies. That there is no candy in the classroom, there's no vending machines right. That the hot lunch program is as high quality as they can make it. They we can. Women can move mountains. We're the only ones that are going to change this. We're the only ones. We're the ones serving foods to children in daycares, foods to our families, foods in schools. We're largely in charge of lunch programs. We are largely feeding our seniors in our older population care homes, right, like we are the ones. We are the ones. We have all the power. We can do this.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 39:10

Yes, for sure, and that's what I say, you know, to my patients and clients it's you, even you can. You, with a mom, you can help your child, you can improve your child's metabolic health without them even being aware, without them even being on board. Frankly, you know. I mean I have an 11 year old and so he's home a lot and I control. You know what comes into the house and what I cook and, and that's awesome and I'm going to be losing a little bit. You know more and more as he gets older and can bike around, and he already does that and I already am experiencing that.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 39:47

Um, but I know that it's up to me. I don't want to micromanage him, I don't want to control him, I don't want to be tracking him, and you know, you know, you know whatever. That is not. My goal is change myself, show up as the role model I want to be, show up as the parent I want to be and as the healthy model for him, so that he'll see this is possible for him too. And you know this is the way to lifelong health. And so parents can help their kids just by working on themselves.

FLORENCE: 40:30

Totally. Yes, I did the same with my daughter, but I also brought her into the, into the grocery store, and I'd give her a little basket or one little thing. She'd push around and I'd say anything in the produce section, anything that calls your name. Just go up and down and look at the fruits and vegetables and if anything just wants to hop into your cart, you just grab it. Right. And I'd get her really really young three, four, five, right. And she still does it to this day.

FLORENCE: 40:54

I'll say whatever you want in this section. And then I would always say buffet style for meals. They could pick, ooh, this. And they had this sense of possibilities and it wasn't just you know, here's what you're eating. It's like a variety of fruits and vegetables and proteins and, you know, complex carbs. I had it very balanced and lots of options and yeah. And then later I'd say, oh, yeah, when you're out of the house, honey, you can eat whatever you want, to see what, how, how it sits with you. Just notice, you know, and make some connections. And she went off the deep end with sugar for a while and then she came back and she's like I just don't feel good on it, mommy, and she's come right home and I I yeah, I didn't micromanage, but I beautiful.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 41:37

Yeah, and I mean that's such a good story. I think a lot of parents have the have the narrative or the story. It's like a limiting belief my kid won't eat healthy food, my child won't eat vegetables, won't eat fruits and vegetables Right, you know. And so the first thing is to work on that. Thought yourself. Like is that thought even helping you help your child? Of course your child can eat fruits and vegetables. Kids all over the world eat fruits and vegetables. And if the processed food industry went out of business tomorrow, of course your child would be able to eat and survive. So we just need to understand they prefer the, why they prefer them. It's normal. They're not trying to. You know they. It's normal for kids to want to eat those foods. They taste good. They were designed to taste really good. They were built in a lab. You know they were created in a lab with the with the express goal of tasting so good.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 42:39

People will buy more and more and more to make the company more money.

FLORENCE: 42:43

They will self-poison.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 42:45

Yeah, so I think, parent, if so, if you accept that and understand that, of course your child wants that and it's okay to not give it to them, and okay, how? So how can we help our kids enjoy more fruits and vegetables? And we need to. You know, going shopping with your child like you did, perfect, that's so wonderful. Have you heard the term like exposure to food? Exposures to food? Yeah, so that's, you know. They say it takes. You know, sometimes people say 14, sometimes people say 17.

FLORENCE: 43:18

I've heard seven.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 43:19

Yeah, sometimes people say 17. I've heard seven. Yeah, it's way higher number than parents think to get your child to be even sometimes willing to taste a fruit or vegetable, or a savory food, a new food, yeah.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 43:33

And so, oh my, he won't eat. He won't eat that. He won't eat that, okay, well, at least cook it. Won't eat that, Okay, well, at least cook it. And you know, if, if you put it, put it on the table so he's looking at it or he's smelling it, you know, okay, that's one exposure. So don't, even if he didn't eat it or wasn't willing to even put it on his plate or try it, okay, no big deal. Next time, whenever you're going to serve that vegetable again, that's another exposure. And so just keep at it.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 44:02

And then and then, for parents, you know, we do need to figure out ways. Parents need to figure out ways to make the food taste really good and then kids are going to really going to love it too. So roasting vegetables brings out their natural sweetness, and just preparing foods in different ways. Kids like to dip things. So making like a sugar-free, really yummy homemade dip. So there's just so many ways and it takes some perseverance and sticking with it. For parents, I say to my son like, okay, I'm just not giving up. If I make something and he doesn't eat it, I'm just like, okay, well, that's fine, I'm just not giving up, we're going to try something the next day or the next night, whenever.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 44:48

But I see so many parents who just say they won't eat it. They won't eat it. What am I supposed to do? He won't eat anything but this particular brand of hot dogs.

FLORENCE: 44:56

Sure, and that's true for us too. Until our taste buds turn around, until we fall in love with whole foods. Until we realize that an almond is exquisitely sweet and so is iceberg lettuce, that the sugar that naturally occurs in food is perfectly satisfying, and no one, no one, comes off of a high processed diet and immediately falls in love with whole foods. Wow, Rare.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 45:17

Yeah, we need. We need our taste buds. We need to give time for the taste buds to change over. You know, and they do, and it doesn't take that long.

FLORENCE: 45:25

It doesn't take that long doesn't 10 days maybe yeah, exactly yeah, and every time someone's listening to this interview and you hear the word parent, please substitute the word grandparent, please.

FLORENCE: 45:36

Caregiver yeah, and it's not just about children. It's about if you're a grandmother or grandfather and you have your grandkids over. There's so much pressure on grandmothers to bring out the treats and to you know you don't have to do that. You can be the grandparent that serves them. Platters of fresh fruits and vegetables. Six colors for kids under the age of 12, six bind purples and reds and yellows. The bell peppers have four green, red, orange and yellow. Right there you got four covered and grapes and blueberries and, and I don't know, like lettuces, and I put little mint things in there and have it be just a feast of colors. They will fall in love with those and they will love you for it. You don't have to buy into this idea that kids come over to see grandma and want ice cream.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 46:27

And the other thing I think is so important for parents and grandparents to know is that, even if your child doesn't have a weight problem or isn't visibly carrying extra weight, this is how every child should be eating their metabolic health. They may not be manifesting a quote problem, you know, as extra weight right now, but it's still not healthy for kids to be eating or drinking sugar, soda, you know, and all the processed foods, even if they don't have a weight problem. This is not just for kids, we're. What you and I are talking about today is for all kids, it's for all humans. Let's, let's you know. It's not just for those of us who have had problems with our weight or who have kids who have problems with their weight.

FLORENCE: 47:15

Absolutely Great point. And you can see that the parents are in the same dynamic the doctors are in with their patients the pushback, the crankiness that I won't eat, that I won't do that. Doctors are the boss. If someone's come and is trusting their body with a doctor, the doctors are the bot. Here's the deal. And moms have to be the same. Parents, grandparents have to be the same. Here's the deal.

FLORENCE: 47:39

In my home we eat whole foods because I really love you, kiddo. I'm so excited about these foods, what they're going to do for your body. There's no discussion about what we don't eat. No, no, we focus on what we can eat and how good it's going to make us feel. And it builds our strong bodies. And with little boys, you build up their muscle part because they like that. And with the girls I don't know they could be girls like muscles too, girls like muscles too. Yeah, yeah, it's a good message for sure. Right, we can, we can, we can do more, more cartwheels, I don't know. Yeah, but um, yeah, and just guess, when you're in love with those foods, it will infectiously spread out in our families and our communities and this has to be a revolution.

FLORENCE: 48:20

I think back to. I think back to in the history of America anyways. How hard, how hard, what. What a terrible time in history it was when there was the slave. The slave trade started with sugar, ironically because of our voracious appetite for this addictive, deadly substance. And then you know that stayed entrenched and all the there was this war over it, whether or not to emancipate African-Americans Crazy that that would even be. Anyone could ever defend that.

FLORENCE: 48:55

Emancipation happens, but it's still decades of work just to get the vote happens, but it's still decades of work just to get the vote. And then women didn't get the vote till even later. We're not going to turn this around without the same kind of battle Every single day. It's that same kind of energy. What is the truth? The truth is these foods are toxic, they're addictive, they're killing, they're robbing our children of healthy, healthy childhoods. They're robbing women of the energy. We need to make changes on you know, to do our share, our gifts on the world. This isn't going to be easy, but it's not just going to happen Like. We need to band together those of us that are awakened to me. Yeah.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 49:34

That's what I say. I a hundred percent agree. It takes effort because the culture we're swimming in and the food system we're swimming in is not healthy and it's harming us. It's not only like, yeah, I think that to me sometimes, you know, I think actually trying to have people understand it's not neutral Eating these processed foods. It's like, oh, you know, it's no big deal. No, it's actually harming you and that and that's that's so important for people to understand. But it takes some education, it takes some willingness to listen on people's part, you know. And then the whole, the more and more data that's coming out that's supporting the chronic inflammation that these processed foods are causing and all the sugar is causing and how that's leading to a worsening cognitive function, worsening ability to think early on.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 50:32

Alzheimer's, dementia. You know dementia doesn't start. You might have symptoms of it in your 60s and 70s, but who knows when that actually started? That could have you could have been slowly, you know, poisoning your brain cells since you're in your 10, you know, since you're 10, 12, 14, 20s, you know, um, so it's not like disease.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 50:57

Diseases of adults start when, when you're an, you know we're setting the stage for them now as kids, and so if we are okaying all the processed foods, all the sugars and we're just passing that down the line to our kids to figure that out themselves when they become an adult, and there's other entrenched emotional eating and all the other problems that you have, now you're an adult, you know and you've got other things going on and you never had a super healthy role model and you never entrenched internally inside of you. I am a healthy person. I that is one of my values, I. I eat really healthy. I take care of my body in a way that you know I value it. And if we don't, we have that opportunity right now as parents. Even if you have a teenager, your teenager is still watching what you're doing. You can still influence them for sure, and that's such a powerful opportunity to help our kids get on the path for a life of wellness.

FLORENCE: 52:12

Because nothing can make us happier, as parents, watching our kids be happy and healthy and vibrant and enjoying life. And it's heartbreaking to watch our kids suffer, and we're doing it. We think giving them sugary treats is love. It's not love. Love is whole foods. And if you love your kids, if you love your grandkids, if you love yourself and even if you can't love yourself, love your kids. Sometimes it's easier to just like love your kids enough that you're going to draw a line and say we are a whole food family. Maybe rare exceptions aside, I get that, but yeah.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 52:46

You do it with so many other things, like we already said. You know, you know I, sometimes I say to parents like well, if your child really begged you for a cigarette, yeah, cigarette, yeah, or a beer, or I'm like, would you give your child, even if they were crying, you know? No, because you totally believe, you a hundred percent believe alcohol and cigarettes. They're not healthy, they're not safe for your child.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 53:14

So, that, I think, is really. I hope as physicians, I hope as a medical community and people like yourself like spread the education that it's it's unsafe, you know, for our kids to be eating these foods on the regular.

FLORENCE: 53:30

Yes, thank you. We've heard it from a mom. We've heard it from a woman who grew up a child that was deeply affected by the processed foods in her diet. Right Was overweight and struggled with the pain of that. And as a doctor, right, she's got three hats. She's lived this, she's walked this path, she's made the transformation. She knows it's hard and she also knows, as a doctor, she's seen it. This is causing extraordinary suffering and if we want to turn this around, don't show up asking for a pill. Maybe there's a place for that short term, maybe for sure. And but long term, the real solution is so much more simple and you will fall in love with these foods.

FLORENCE: 54:09

Dr Carol, you work with families you've talked about how important support is and to have someone there who can be an ally and give you tips and tricks and encouragement. So that's what you're doing now your whole. You know you're wearing a different, you're a doctor, but you're sort of doing it with this, this sort of lifestyle medicine, transformation lens. So how can people find you and work with you?

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 54:31

Um, I have a website. It's my name, sheila Carol mdcom, and I work individually. I help clients one-on-one. I help parents, moms usually and you know we go through the process of starting with themselves and seeing where they're at, where their family is at. And you know I work with clients usually for six months at a time and sometimes they extend for longer. But the first part of the journey is where the mom is and then kind of she's willing to change. And I recommend no flour, no sugar to my mom so they can experience how powerfully good they feel. And I feel like that is like that is when a mom is willing to do that, then she can say, oh, my gosh, my child would benefit so much from this. Even if you're never able to get your child, you know completely, my child's not off flour and sugar for sure. It's just, you know, because I don't want to create, create that life for him right now. It would be too controlling and too it just the. But I have confidence as he ages he'll be making those.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 55:46

He already he already doesn't drink. He won't choose soda. He knows, you know, he knows that's so terrible for his liver, you know. So he's already made a lot of gains. So just work with the moms.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 55:59

Change themselves first, and then, okay, let's talk about how we can introduce this into the family and change as a family. And then lots of tips and tricks and tools to like, oh, your child's pushing back, okay, what do we do? How do you handle that as a mom? And you know, and all of that is always encompassed with the whole idea of we're changing to stay healthy, where, you know, the whole goal is not to lose weight and have a lower number on the scale. That might happen and that usually does happen. But the whole thing is like we actually need to be focusing on health, not weight, and the healthy way to live and the healthy foods to be eating and the healthy lifestyle to create. And when, when parents really dive into that and they change themselves, then it's so much. Then the rest of it is like a little bit of a snowball downhill, because they're so on board with making these changes over time for their kids and it's so wonderful to see, and then the kids just thrive, the whole family thrives.

FLORENCE: 57:09

We all deserve that. I hope you take this and run with it. Thanks so much, everybody, for tuning in today. You can choose to be a statistic, or you could choose to be sorry at the end of every day. Statistic, or you could choose to be sorry at the end of every day, or you could choose to be a success story, and I hope the latter for you. Thanks for tuning in today.

DR. SHEILA CARROLL: 57:26

Thank you for having me.