The Kick Sugar Coach Podcast
The Kick Sugar Coach Podcast
Dr. Sarah Seidelmann: From Sugar Highs to Spiritual Heights
What if breaking up with sugar and alcohol could unlock a radiant new chapter in your life?
This episode promises to reveal the transformative journey of Dr. Sarah Seidelmann, a fourth-generation physician who reinvented herself from a hectic, nature-starved lifestyle into a shamanic mentor and author. Hear how Sarah battled a midlife sugar addiction with the help of the Bright Line Eating program and discover the profound changes she experienced in her energy levels and well-being. Sarah shares the hero's journey of her transformation, the initial resistance, and the eventual self-acceptance, giving listeners a candid look into her powerful story.
Love and acceptance are pivotal in personal transformation, and this episode highlights the power of support groups and structured programs. Sarah shares her strategies for navigating social settings while maintaining dietary commitments, and the emotional journey of leaving behind old behaviors for a healthier, more fulfilling life. We explore her transition from medical doctor to shamanic mentor, discussing the profound lessons learned from nature and animal spirits. From writing books to embracing new social circles, Sarah's story is a testament to the interconnected nature of life and the unexpected guidance we receive along the way.
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Welcome everybody to the KickSugarCoach podcast. I have with me today Sarah Seidelman, and technically I should put the word doctor in front of it, because she's an MD. She's a fourth-generation MD who, in 2010, decided to reinvent her career, her life, and is now let me see, she's a shamanic mentor. She's the author of six different books, some of which all of which you can find on Amazon, but two of which you can find on Audible if you like to listen. Her latest book is a novel called when the Deer Dream. Let's see what else to say. She was a fourth generation physician living a hectic, nature-starved life that is now night and day, but in that transition, there's also this story of her breaking up with sugar, and so today we're going to explore that part of her journey and what role that played in discovering a whole new life for herself, which is radiantly obvious. If you go on her website, you see her face. You can tell right that this is she's clearly on her path. So welcome Sarah.
DR SARAH:Thank you so much, florence, super happy to be here.
FLORENCE:So tell us a bit about your, your sugar journey. How did you first discover that this was a thing for you?
DR SARAH:Yeah, I think I, you know I grew up with probably a dysfunctional relationship to food in general but somehow, like you know, didn't get into too much trouble until I probably hit midlife. You know I was a big exerciser, I love to work out, I'm super athletic and that kind of thing, and so I sort of was able to get away with all the things that I did, but I was always on some diet or another, always trying to lose this. You know, five pounds, 10 pounds, weight Watchers, whatever. It was always something, you know, with my friends and I, and I grew up in a house where that was not also something that was going on all the time. You know there was always dieting happening and it wasn't until about 2018, I think it was that fall or 2017, fall of 2017. I was. I began to observe myself. You know I had done enough personal transformation work. I started noticing, wow, sarah, you come home from work and around like three, 34 o'clock, I see you eating a bowl of muesli. You know it wasn't like I was eating Twinkies although you know that was a possibility too but I would eat this muesli. It wasn't hungry, I was just sort of like jonesing for something.
DR SARAH:And that year I said to myself you, you're going to, I want to get into integrity with myself. I want I'm sick of saying I'm not going to eat X and then watching myself go and do that. And so I hired a coach, which was sort of the beginning of like just committing some funds and some time to like what is the issue? Like, let's get to the bottom of this. I know joining Weight Watchers is not the answer for me, like it might be for many people, but it wasn't for me. And in that the woman who coached me said to me hey, have you ever thought of like going off flour and sugar for a period of time to see what would happen? And I was just like inside I was like how dare you suggest such an evil? You know, I mean, I just I knew that was coming. And I was like that's impossible. Like I've tried that before. That doesn't work or that's not sustainable, etc. Etc. But not too long after that I got an invite from Bright Line Eating somehow in my email I don't remember how I even got on their list but it was like would you like to do this thing? It's no flour, no sugar. And I was like okay, I will try your evil to see what happens, you know. And so this coach had also suggested that I really notice what happened when I stopped eating in flour and sugar. What were my symptoms before and I was like and what were they after. And it was interesting. I watched how, like my energy got better, I didn't feel as tired. Um, I didn't have a lot of weight to lose. I think I had like 16 pounds or something I lost when I did this. But it was more like uh, it was more of this integrity thing with me. I mean, yes, I wanted to lose weight. That sounded great, but it was more like sick of just kind of not being able to do the things I said I was going to do. So I did that and it was like seemed so easy I mean, when I say easy, like with a lot of support and education through this program, bright Line Eating, I was able to do it.
DR SARAH:And then, not too soon after, of course, I began to do what is called in the Bright Line Eating community. It's called research, where you sort of want to try to eat like a normal person again and get away with whatever. So soon I was like you know, oh, I'm at a wedding, so you know. Or oh, I'm at my dear friend's house and they made this wonderful cake. That was a really. That was one of the tough parts for me was the social stuff. Like when somebody was eating I would get sort of codependent, like, oh, I don't want anybody to think it's not okay to eat this cake or whatever it was, so I'll just eat it and go along with what everybody else is doing. It was really interesting and anyway. So since that time I would say I went on this.
DR SARAH:You know we were talking before we jumped on, about a hero's journey. And during a hero's journey, you know, first this is a perfect example Like first the hero gets the call, like to go to no sugar in my case no flour and then the first thing the hero does is they refuse the call. They're like oh no, I'm not doing that, that's way too hard, you got the wrong girl. Use the call. They're like oh no, I'm not doing that, that's way too hard. I mean you got the wrong girl, I mean it's not me. And then finally the hero says, yeah, I'll do it, I'll do it. And the helpers start to appear and bright line eating showed up in my life and that I would consider one of the helpers as Mel and also got into a mastermind and other things with other people and it was awesome.
DR SARAH:And then I would say the road of trials really started, which is this part in the movie in every movie you've ever seen where the hero goes through all these difficult challenges and she finds her way through eventually and then she discovers a treasure which she can, you know. The hero can then share that with other people and I wouldn't say I'm out there like proselytizing, like you should get more sugar, and I wouldn't say I'm out there like proselytizing, like you should get more sugar. But I do know it's just changed my life and it has not been an easy path, it has not been a straightforward path and I've had lots of support and in fact, um, it's. You know, just like recovery from alcohol or other addictive drugs or substances.
DR SARAH:Relapse is part of that journey for many of us, not for everybody, but it definitely has been a part of my journey, like, and recently my, my dad, died and kind of unexpectedly, and it was. There were a lot of things happening at the same time and there was a lot going on and during that period I had a relapse, you know, and then I was able to gather my the support wagons around myself and get back to where I am now, which feels so good again. But I just want to share that. Yeah, that journey is. It's just, I don't know. Some people I know have met, you know, they just decide they get all the data, they get the information and they just say that's it, I am done eating sugar, I won't, I won't, poison myself, like because we realize, I mean, for many of us, we realize just a little bit is never enough. And yeah, and also with that journey came alcohol being eliminated.
DR SARAH:With alcohol, again, it wasn't like I was, it was an integrity thing I just noticed as I had gotten older. Again, when I was younger I got away with all kinds of things, used to party pretty hard and go to work the next day and do all kinds of things. But I realized that doing the work that I do now, doing spiritual work, one glass of wine, I feel it. I mean the next day I feel it and I felt like my work wasn't as good and that bothered me. And so, again, that was sort of a process of slowly, slowly eliminating it.
DR SARAH:And again, occasional social moments of like. I think that was the hardest thing for me. I think it's different for everybody, but for me, in those social settings where we would go and you know, with the same group of people that you always had wine with, or you know with women, there's so many notorious like events, book club or whatever it is, and I would feel compelled at times to like have a glass of wine or whatever it was. And now I feel like I'm in that place where I can go to any event and I'm just like, I really do not care, I'm just here, I am and um, and that feels so, it feels so great to get to that spot.
FLORENCE:Oh, totally so. How long was this journey of fits and starts and breakdowns and breakthroughs and relapses and just research, how long did that unfold for you?
DR SARAH:Literally so. It's been like roughly five years and I mean I don't want to tell anybody that Like I remember when I started on my shamanic path, I remember some people saying, like you may not even get any of this for 10 years and I remember thinking I heard a few people whisper that and I remember thinking, like you know, you don't even want to start if it's going to be that long. Like there's a big part of ourselves that sometimes is like, oh, I'm never doing that. But it's been such an amazing growth process and I've learned so much about myself and my patterns in that process and I think what I've really mostly learned is that you need other people Like we don't.
DR SARAH:I don't know, maybe other people have done it on their own, but for me, I needed that connection and community and understanding. I could not have gotten where I am without you know the books I've read, the communities I've been a part of. I have a sponsor who has been with me since 2018. I cannot tell you how much I've learned from her. I mean things about a lot of you know and her her truisms like ring out in my head all the time when I like want to control people or I'm like, why are they doing that? I'll just hear Judy go, sarah, people are going to do what people do. You know it's like, and it's just so simple and so profound.
DR SARAH:I'm like that's right, I forget, like I don't get to play God, I don't get to, like, control the world, and yeah, so it's that that longing to become in, in, in full integrity with myself has led to so much like learning about how to manage life and how to be with people, which is, of course, why I was eating all the sugar or, you know, drinking all the wine and all that. And recently, more recently, in our town in Minnesota, we had these. These new beverages got developed that are like THC beverages. These new beverages got developed that are like THC beverages, so they have like whatever the active ingredient that's in marijuana or pot that's in them. And, of course, this spring I was just like you know, I think I need to have one of those. And you know there's this, watching myself decide that that I am that wants to escape reality or wants to run away from pain or difficulty or discomfort. But at least now I have that awareness and I have a funny story from the experience.
FLORENCE:Anyway, we'll go there, go there, tell us what happened.
DR SARAH:So we were. I went to this, we were having dinner, this friend and I, and we were waiting for somebody and the person took a really long time. So, empty stomach, one can of this stuff, having no idea, like what it's going to do to me, and when I drink this, the entire can. This wonderful friend who's sitting in front of me is talking and she's telling this story and I can tell it's like a really important story to her and it's very soulful, but it honestly can't understand what she's talking about because my brain has become addled with THC and really I think that's a wonder, it's just a metaphor. I mean that and that kind of broke my heart a little bit. It's like, oh my God, like this little innocent, hey, I think I'll just try this thing that might make me relax or whatever. Um, and that makes me think about, yeah, whenever I was in in the sugar, in the food, kind of escaping reality by overeating in the past, over drinking, but I mostly relate to overeating Um, usually it would isolate me.
DR SARAH:We're like everybody would leave the house for whatever reason, like everybody's off doing something, the kids are gone, and I just opened the cupboard and I'm like, oh, look, there's some chocolate chips in there, there's some. I won't even mention foods because sometimes that can be a trigger for people, but there's something in there and then just not planned, not hungry, no reason to be eating, but I'm just eating, but it's kind of in this secret way, right, nobody's there to witness what I'm doing, so I can pretend that I am one way. So there's that duplicitousness to like oh yeah, I eat clean and I'm so virtuous and then, while you guys all walk out the door, I'm doing this other thing. While you guys all walk out the door, I'm doing this other thing, um, and so I feel like coming into integrity with myself and eating only the things that I say I'm going to eat. In terms of Brightline eating, you know it's measured quantities and you don't snack and all this kind of.
DR SARAH:There's a lot of different things that go with it, which sounds really restrictive, but I've found is like it really has allowed me so much freedom, um, and I feel like, um, I can show up as a in a, in a in a better way for everyone, including myself, um, which is such a blessing, and I feel much more confident. I feel, um, yeah, I just I trust myself. I guess that's what it is. It has to do with that inner trust, and when you trust yourself you can navigate a lot of things. Not just you know your food, but your career, your creative process, I mean whatever it is. It's like you know you've got your own back, you're not doing something else behind your back, if that makes sense.
FLORENCE:Yes, that that, that being out of alignment. There's a part of you that really wants this and you're engaging in behaviors that make you. You just don't end your day in peace, you just go. I'm out of alignment, this is, and at the worst you end your day in shame, guilt and regret, but at the very least you don't end your day at peace Because you know that's not, know, that's not in alignment and it's so frustrating as we sort of and some of us, like you've said, learn up the science, learn some new recipes, understand.
FLORENCE:Oh, the 301 plan got it. Three meals, no snacks, one day at a time. Got it All. Whole foods, simple, good, got it. And you know, five and a half years later, they've not had a single break. And you think, how did you do that right?
FLORENCE:And then the most, the most of us are not that. The rest of us are like on again, off again, and we're like, oh, and then we just get the junk food out, the processed stuff, the sugar, the flour, the sweeteners, the alcohol, and then, you know, we start overeating peanuts or almonds or cashews or something, and then the cheese is kind of upticking and we're thinking is this, am I going to just play whack-a-mole for the rest of my life, and then it's such a relief to have someone like you come on the show and go, look like it was a five-year journey. And three months ago I took a little visit to the ditch. Right, I did a little extra research there and really happy to be back back in in the safe zone back home with my food, where it's 301 um, which comes out of the 12-step programs.
FLORENCE:Right, it's been like passed down since the 50s. It's like they worked it all out for us. We know. We know how effective it can be. But it also does look impossible, and for some of us it's mostly possible and sometimes we just need to go to a little research and then come back and and that having grace with that journey is so helpful, because it can be so discouraging when we relapse and we think everyone else is perfect and they're getting it perfect. But I remember one time, um speaking of BLE, that Susan had done a survey and I think she's done multiple surveys how are you guys doing out there? How many of you are actually bright? And she said 10%, 10%, yeah.
FLORENCE:I recall this was a few years ago, but like 10% will say yep, fully, bright Right. The rest are like somewhere on the continuum.
DR SARAH:Yeah, and I feel like the angry. The one thing that is curative and this is only that I know from my sponsor is just like love and acceptance. Love and acceptance and when I have somebody that I sponsor and it's just like that's what I try to just say like it takes what it takes and if you're just willing to keep you know, keep coming back, um, like it is possible. If we just don't let go of the, the desire to to get there, um, and that love and compassion cause we're so hard on ourselves and it can feel like, yeah, you just want to throw in the towel and you just want to give up and, yeah, all those other parts of ourselves kind of take the wheel for a while.
DR SARAH:And I found, you know, I was also part of my hero's journey. I was part of a 12-step group for food and I found that really helpful. But one thing that I noticed is I started telling people about Bright Line Eating because I felt like the one thing that the groups that I was part of they didn't there, wasn't enough not get where they wanted to go and really be extremely confused, and I think I think that's why I love having something that has a loving base, but it has an instructive path Like this is the way you know and that's really worked for me and and and the community is like wow, there's so much love in that community. It's incredible.
FLORENCE:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's such a relief to be with people who get it and they can be loving and kind and teach us how to be that for ourselves until we can do that for ourselves. Been there, done that, been in and out of the ditch, in and out of the ditch hundreds of times and the truth is it's closing the gap. It's closing the gap to where you want to go.
FLORENCE:It looks like you're getting farther away, you're drifting farther out to sea, but you're actually getting closer to that moment when you really get it. Yeah, I can't do that. Those exceptions, those don't work for me.
DR SARAH:Yeah, like you get it, get it down to your bones, like I'm not, I'm never going back. It's not worth it. It is not worth it.
FLORENCE:Yeah, totally. And do you weigh and measure all your meals? Now still?
DR SARAH:If I go out, I don't bring a scale to the restaurant. I know some people do that. I don't do that, but I don't go out a lot. So, yeah, I feel like the social bit is that. I mean it's so great. Like I remember going to this Bright Line Eating family reunion. It was like a couple, 1000 people I don't know how many people it was, it seemed like a lot of people and we all were like weighing and measuring our food. They had it all set up and I thought this is so fun, because I think that's still the hardest thing for me is, like you know, going to somebody's house and realizing but I figured that out Like usually I eat about five or 10 ounces of vegetables before I go out to eat, Cause I know I'm no way going to get that when I need like four, I eat 14 ounces of vegetables for dinner. So it's like, yeah, it's unlikely I'm going to go to the family potluck and find that there sometimes or I bring my own salad or I, you know, do something else, Um, but it's that, yeah, it's that feeling isolated which is just, that's the worst.
DR SARAH:You know, I felt it last night. I was at a gathering and everybody was drinking and then everybody's like, well, a couple of us was starting to leave and then somebody said if some, if you want to stay, for another glass of wine. And a couple of people decided to stay and as I closed the door I could hear them all laughing and like going off to drink another glass of wine and I thought, I kind of for a moment, you know, felt that old pang of like, oh, that would have been me, you know, five years ago for sure. Um, but it also would have been me waking up, not feeling great about my decision and then realizing, oh gosh, I don't feel like my work is as good, I don't feel as clear headed, and that's not the me that I want to be. Anymore, for me, yes.
FLORENCE:Yep, yeah, yep, yep. And you have to do it long enough to realize that that, that that little sort of artificial temporary, I feel really good. I feel a little good that I nicer than I should in this moment, right, that there's been an induced state of pleasure, uh, means that you know what goes out must come down. You just pay the price, you just pay it and you're like you know, at a certain point it's just not worth the price.
DR SARAH:Yeah, not paying that, yeah, and you gain more. You know, um, one of my mentors, martha Beck, talks about um. You know, when we make one of these big shifts whether it's, you know, we graduate and start a new, much more ambitious job or whatever, the, or we drop sugar for a while. It's kind of like the she calls it the empty elevator syndrome. You're kind of going in this elevator going up, not like you're so much better than everybody else, but you know the elevator is going up and it tends to empty out, like a lot of. Sometimes old friendships can die. Sometimes, um, you lose people. But when you get up to that next level and the doors open, there's a whole new pile of people to meet.
DR SARAH:And now I have tons of friends that I can go out with and hike with. Or we go out to dinner and we don't drink. You know we do experiences together that have nothing to do with alcohol. We go thrift shopping, you know. We go to art openings, we go watch the sunrise and drink coffee and, like you know, it's just, it's there's a whole world waiting for you and it just takes time, you know, and your willingness to be open to it. That's it, the willingness. I think if you have a willingness, you know, and your willingness to be open to it, that's it, the willingness. I think if you have a willingness, you're going to get there. It's just going to take a little bit.
FLORENCE:It doesn't matter how many times you fall down.
FLORENCE:I mean, it's totally normal, we're all doing it, no matter how many people I've interviewed that have been successful on my podcast or on my summits, or, you know, even the people that might be around you in your life think, well, they're all getting it, but I'm not. You don't know. You don't know how many times we fell and thought that exact thought before we finally, slowly, something just awakens, or we just get enough time away from the sugar, flour, sweeteners and alcohol that the body. I felt like there was a certain point where I was like a tipping point for me, where my body became my ally. It's like, oh, this is better.
FLORENCE:I actually did. Okay, I was wrong. I like this better. You were right. I'm going to stop bugging you for the law. I just have some cake just, and start feeling like I'm feeling so deprived because when you go back to that, I'm now deprived of what I've experienced in my body and I know this is better and it becomes our ally, even though we can still, you know, go back and do research. But right, yeah, yeah, and you have to have enough time for the body to know for itself for sure that life on the other side of sugar is so much better in terms of learning to deal with. I re, I remember my first year of being sugar flower free. I felt like a skinned cat, like it's no better way I could describe it Like I just felt like so raw all the time. Um, what did you have that experience and how did you learn to deal with that?
DR SARAH:Yeah, um, there were just a lot of strong feelings came up, like all the feelings that I wasn't feeling cause I was eating through them. So and in fact, um, well, that recently came. You know, just, I've had a lot of feelings with everything that's gone on with me this spring, and I just learned this. I think feelings are such a it's like, how do you I mean, everybody knows you're supposed to feel your feelings and grieve your grief and all that kind of stuff. But one of the things I was encouraged to do recently and I love this, it was just a really simple technique where you just, you know you, you sense what you're feeling, so like lately for me it's been grief, you know, um, so like I'm feeling sad. So then what you do is you say to yourself, sarah, in the second person and this is kind of similar to something Susan Pierce Thompson shared the other day, but it was really helpful for me and you say, sarah, I noticed you're feeling sad and you're really missing your dad. Or, sarah, I noticed that you, you're feeling sad and you wish that certain things hadn't happened the way they did when your dad was dying. And then the third step is you take a moment. You don't do this in like 10 seconds. But in the third step is then you take, you say a prayer for all the people that are feeling sad and missing someone and wishing things didn't go the way they did.
DR SARAH:You know, in some ways, and I really like that and I've been just kind of repeating that as I'm feeling strong emotions that still keep coming about that, because it just allows you to acknowledge the feeling and then also realize that, um, I guess it's like step back a little bit from it, you know, so you can kind of bear witness to it. And that's when I guess I'm in my essential self, instead of like I'm in this, I'm not in this, grief stricken like little child who's maybe going to grab the, whatever it is, to try to soothe herself. Um, and so that's been really helpful for me. Writing has been really helpful, yeah.
DR SARAH:And then we're doing parts work, therapy. I think that's probably been far none the best. You know to start identifying who's who in here. What do we got going on in here? You know the part that's wanting to indulge and soothe me, and then the little child who's just like scared to death of what's going on and learning to just soothe them, talk to them, be aware of them, acknowledge them, and then you know, take care of myself and do what I need to do for my essential self or my capital S self.
FLORENCE:Yep, got it, got it and I like that whole process. Actually, I think I've heard it years ago and it's tickling the back of my head, that whole idea of naming your feeling. I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling grief, I'm not feeling great about some of the things that transpired as your dad was passing. And to kind of own that and acknowledge it and then to say a prayer for people who might be going through that as well, because all of a sudden you're not alone, even if you don't know them. It's like there's there's a world, there's an, there's an ocean of people out there that are right now in the same boat and even though we don't know each other and even though we'll may never talk, I know that they're there and I'm going to, and so it's saying a prayer for them. It's like you're bringing that kindness, that compassion, that that energy to the problem. For all the people that are in that space. You don't feel so alone with it, I imagine.
DR SARAH:Yeah, and you're kind of getting out of that problem, like in in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, how they talk about how the addict is always self-obsessed. Right, and not to say I'm being self-obsessed by grieving for my dad, I'm certainly not. But let's say, like the situation last night, when I leave out the door and I'm feeling like, oh, my friends are, they don't want me around, I mean whatever weird story I could tell myself about that, and I'm like feeling sorry for myself. And but then if I sit and say like Sarah, I noticed you're feeling sorry for yourself and you're feeling really sad and isolated from your friends. And then when I move into now I'm praying for all the beings everywhere who feel isolated and, you know, unloved by their friends. It's like now the focus isn't on me. It's like, oh my God, this is like a global phenomenon. We're all just human beings trying to get through life. And then you know I'm able to get enough distance from it that I can just then go to bed.
DR SARAH:I mean, I drove home, did not stop at the kitchen, went straight to bed, you know, and it's just it's a lot of research on this idea that people who really kind of buy into their thoughts, the beliefs that are kind of coursing through their brain. I mean, we all have a million of them going on. But some people feel very identified to them, very close to them, and some people feel a little distant from that them and they tend to what was the? I forget what she said, but they tend to just do better in life because they're not getting caught up in all these things. So her process is, too, to talk to yourself in the third person. Sarah, I see that you are really upset about the fact that gas prices are up and your paycheck just went down or whatever that kind of thing. So that's helpful to keep ourselves from getting too caught up in the thinking.
FLORENCE:Right, right, right, and the emotions of it. It's sort of like a bit like an undertow in an ocean, like, oh, we're getting, we're getting pulled out pulled out where we're going to feel like we're drowning in this, this fear, this grief, whatever. Totally love that. Tell us. Talk to us a little bit about how you got into shamanic work with, I mean in a. In a way, I can imagine it's such a lovely transition from a medical doctor being a healer to just a different way of healing, I imagine.
DR SARAH:Yeah. So I took a sabbatical in 2010 and it was just like I wasn't feeling engaged at work. So I just thought, well, I got to figure this out because I don't want to be a disengaged physician. Like that sounds terrible. So it probably is terrible. So, anyway, I you know that summer I spontaneously ended up spending a lot of time in the woods just because I had more time. I have four kids. My husband's a physician. I mean, we've both been working like so many hours for so long and it was finally like the first time I had like an extended period of downtime to just wander and stumble about in the woods.
DR SARAH:And that summer I remember like I sat in this marsh one day and these cow tails or cattails were like blowing in the wind, and I remember for a second, it was like something struck me as really odd.
DR SARAH:It seemed like those were blowing for me, like there was like this communication going on between me and the cattails and I was like, okay, like my scientific brain was like, okay, you're either going bananas, which was entirely possible. I have a lot of bipolar, creative, depressive anxiety all this in my family, like I guess we all probably do. I had a pretty strong dose of it. So I was like, okay, I could be going, I could have mania or something, or there's something about this world that I do not understand and there's something else here that's really kind of interesting, and that's really what I ended up saying. Well, I don't know which one it is, but I'm just going to kind of keep going.
DR SARAH:And later that summer I stumbled into the ancient idea that, you know, the wild animals that cross our path have messages for us, which I mean as a doctor. If you had told me that 10 years ago or 20 years ago, I'd have been like, um, yeah, I think that whoever just said that to you is like nuts or whatever. I just would completely disavow that, because that wasn't what I believed at the time. I know it sounds.
FLORENCE:It sounds so narcissistic, right? It just sounds like of course, you have a message from all the whole world revolves around me and like it just seems wild to. I know, I know, I know where this is going. So I just want to say that my brain would have that same reaction Like, oh, come on, it's if I'm that important.
DR SARAH:Well, yeah, and that's that's such an interesting way to look at it too. And I was thinking more like animals aren't smarter than us. I mean, we all know that science shows that. You know, we're king of the mountain, the humans right, and so anyway. But I was so desperate, I was so lost at sea and so confused. I was like, well, I'm just going to give it a try, because I got no better ideas.
DR SARAH:And I remember just starting to play with the ideas and the idea was just like think of something that's bothering you and then sort of, or a problem that you have to solve, and then ask for an animal to show up and to to to solve the problem. And I remember at the time, that summer, I was thinking I'd really like to write a book. You know, I had this wild. You know, these weird urges come to you out of the middle of nowhere when you're at midlife. And anyway, I was like I don't know how to write a book, but how did they? That's so confusing. But I was like, okay, if I'm supposed to write a book, how am I supposed to write a book? And that day I went on a walk and I was like waiting for some like giant Hawk to like sail down and, like you know, poke me in the eye or something. Something was going to happen that's going to be so dramatic. But of course none of that happened.
DR SARAH:But the one thing that I did notice was the one thing that kind of drew my attention was on the way out of my neighborhood into the woods. I noticed this big ant hill where there are all these ants crossing the back and forth of the sidewalk and carrying little grains of something, and I was like, okay, if that's trying to show me how to write a book, I don't get it. But let me think about that for a minute. And as I contemplated I was like, well, I mean, I guess ants make these massive castles and they're tiny little beings and they don't do it alone and they do it like really one tiny ran of time.
DR SARAH:And I was like, okay, if I was going to be like an ant, I would like. So I opened up my computer and I named like a file, like the title of the book that I was thinking of writing, and I sort of just started doing that like moving one little piece of grain of sand at a time and, and you know, then it went on from there Cause. Then I was like, okay, this is kind of helping me. That's weird, let me see what else might help?
DR SARAH:me and so the more animals I noticed. And then I ended up starting up podcasts with a friend, cause we were like this is kind of cool and kind of fun. And we ended up it was a call-in show and I don't even know how people found us Florence, it was bizarre Cause we were not advertising it but people call into the show and tell us the wildest stories about how animals, these wild animals that showed up and given them this profound moment of grace, this profound instruction, this I mean we were all like crying goosebumps. It was just like I don't know what's happening. But this is crazy, Like animals can really really help people.
DR SARAH:And so that's when I just was like wow, and I was simultaneously training to be a coach with Martha Beck, and I remember thinking this is, this animal stuff is like sort of does the heavy lifting for people? It's like the. You don't even have to coach somebody, so to speak. You just create the space, introduce this idea and people kind of can coach themselves through these, the animal encounters. And that was the basis for the beginning of a book, my first book that I wrote, which eventually became my sort of the book that I'm probably most known for, which is the book of beasties, which is this kind of guide to working with the messages of animals, and got all these, like you know, many pages in it. We could do a, we could do a divination. We could ask what did the sugar people who want to quit sugar? What beastie do they need? We could do that right. Do you want to do?
FLORENCE:that? Would that be fine? I do want to do that yeah.
DR SARAH:Yeah, okay, let's ask the beasties, yeah, for all the people who are listening right now to this podcast and are longing to create, either to quit sugar or just to stick, stay the course because they oh, my goodness, this is funny because it's summer in Minnesota Mosquito, oh goodness, interesting. Well, the themes are interdependence. So interdependence, meaning we depend upon each other, which that makes a lot of sense for me Adaptability, transformation and fertility, and I'll just read a couple lines. The mighty mosquito hums and swerves into your life to remind you of something extremely critical the power of one. If you've ever been inside a tent or bedroom without a single mosquito, you know exactly how this diminutive beast is, what they are capable of.
DR SARAH:And at certain times, each one of us can get deluded or overwhelmed by life, convinced that some problems are too big or too complex or too long standing to be changed. But mosquito can cure you of such cynicism. Wow, oh, that's so good. So it's talking about the idea of one effort, one bit of self-expression, one piece of art, one prayer, one gathering of like-minded hearts. Never underestimate your power to change the world or to change yourself. Wow, well, anyway, this is the kind of thing you know. It's like that idea that something, there's something else. I don't know it's within us, it's without us, but there's some other force that can support us.
DR SARAH:And I guess that's what I learned about through that initial endeavor into working with the animal spirits. And then, of course, I started doing drumming and learning about shamanic journey, shamanic healing, these ancient ideas that essentially, like somebody, can make this journey to the other worlds, the spirit worlds, and bring back healing or wisdom or information that can restore balance to a person or restore balance to a community. And got to experience that myself a few times and I was just like, wow, I want to know more about this. I think this is what I felt was missing from traditional allopathic medicine.
DR SARAH:I'm a huge believer in traditional allopathic medicine, but I remember thinking being a disease hunter, which was my job as a pathologist. I always searched for disease. I was always like what makes people well? And I think what I learned through my exploration of shamanism in spirit is that what makes people well, and I think what I learned through my exploration of shamanism in spirit is that what makes people well is like singing, dancing, telling stories, spending time, as Gabrielle Roth says, in the sweet territory of your own silence. Those are the things that really make us more vital. And now, that's really my focus now is just encouraging others, and myself included, to express ourselves through our words, our paintings, our music, our dancing, whatever our recipes we're making, whatever it is, just letting ourselves be used by the creative force.
FLORENCE:Oh my gosh, incredible, so interesting. What a journey Seems like so fun to just go with it. And, okay, all right, yeah, incredible, so interesting. What a journey Seems like so fun to just go with it. And okay, oh, all right. And, and your first. So how did you? How did you know that the mosquito represents that? Like? Where did that information for your book come from?
DR SARAH:Yeah, so when I started writing that book, well, for one thing, I did that podcast for a couple of years, so I got to know lots of these amazing stories, so some of those are woven in there. Um, I've done a couple of years, so I got to know lots of these amazing stories, so some of those are woven in there. I've done a lot of travel and spent a lot of time with a lot of wild animal specialists, so I went to South Africa. I've been in Thailand, spent time with the elephants. I've spent time with people who study the bears. I've spent time you know lots of people that I've spent time with through this fascination. And what I did is I opened a ceremony when I began writing that book and I invited all the animal spirits that wanted to be part of the book to come and to share with me whatever they wanted to share.
DR SARAH:And then I had a crazy collection of some some funny books and wild books that I've collected over the years. Some of them were like Victorian children's books about wild animals, because they had the most amazing descriptions and words and things like that, and then also just like sources of you know biology too, because I love you know, like. For example, there's like, let's see, let's see what it says for um, for the mosquito, for wellness, oh yeah, like. So there's a bunch of tips on the second page where they talk about specifics. But so, for wellness says without water, mosquitoes, eggs, cannot thrive. So begin a practice of gratitude for the water, um, by placing sticky notes or other reminders that say thank you at your kitchen and bath faucets and, as you use these taps, silently say a grateful prayer to the water for nourishing you and giving you life.
DR SARAH:So I would take, you know, like, the biology um, and then turn that into some message. So I just felt like, and every day I would, at the end of the writing day, I'd go oh my gosh, I'm so amazed by what I got today, I'm scared, tomorrow I'm going to wake up and not have such a, or I'm going to run out of things. And it never happened. I mean, it was just amazing. So it was a really sacred process. And then at the end I, you know, closed the ceremony, yeah.
FLORENCE:Sarah. What a story that's just so wild. So tell us a bit about your book. So your first book, was it the autobiography?
DR SARAH:So my very first book was this book called what the Walrus Knows, which was really like a brief. You know, like I did a one page on each beastie. It was kind of me getting warmed up. It's like how to align with the energy of mosquito chameleon, whatever it was. If you saw it, then it's hinting that you tried this new energetic approach. If you saw it, then it's hinting that you tried this new energetic approach. Then I wrote this book called Born to Freak a Salty Primer for Irrepressible Humans, and this came out of I got diagnosed during my sabbatical. I got diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, so I was 42 when I got diagnosed and that just opened a whole door. I mean, I'm not a lover of labels but I loved it, helped me understand so much about myself, and so this is kind of a love letter and some crazy stories that don't make me look so good, some funny stories about, yeah, about being born to freak, and so this idea that whether you have ADHD, depression, anxiety, asperger's, you know like you're here Neurodivergent.
DR SARAH:Yeah, neurodivergent, you're here to restore balance to the world, you know, by sharing who you are. And then I wrote my memoir, which is swimming with elephants, and that was really. I think it was far enough along to understand my journey from leaving medicine to become to do the spiritual work that I do now and stuff, so that that came. And then we had the day this. This came out of a hundred day project, which I'm a huge fan of. Those projects Um, this is called how good are you willing to let it get? And it's really like a daily, like a reader, so I really benefit from taking time in the morning to read inspirational stuff and I was like I love that format. So I shared a lot of shamanic stories and spirit stories in here and I collaborated with Alice the elephant, who is my spirit beastie and helper friend. So that's what came from that and yeah, they've all, and so, like I want to be, a hundred day projects are just a wonderful way to I also believe that, also believe that, um, you know, being creative and that's what hundred day projects are for is really kind of part of the antidote to addiction. Um, addiction, the community and and being creative I think those two things can really, really help because they give us an outlet for all the feelings, they give us a place to go with all that stuff. You know Um 100 Day Project. If you're not aware of it and you're listening, you can go to, you can Google 100dayprojectorg and you can learn all sorts of things about them.
DR SARAH:But I usually lead a group once a year and you basically pick some project you design yourself and you spend 15 minutes a day doing it and that's it, no more than that. And then at the end of 100 days you will have this amazing body of work and you'll know a lot more about yourself. And it sounds quite simple but it's actually quite complex and we usually do some parts work. I usually have somebody come in and do some parts work with the group because all kinds of parts of yourself will come up. You know fear of sharing your work, fear it's not good enough, fear you're doing something stupid. I mean all these things you know will bubble up. But then wow, what happens to people and how much we all grow. It's just phenomenal.
FLORENCE:Oh, so cool, Awesome. Well, thank you for. Thank you for sharing your sugar story, your shamanic story. They're so interesting.
DR SARAH:Is there anything else you would like to add before we wrap up today that you think might be helpful to those that are listening that are either, as you said, already sugar-free and are just trying to stay that way and hang on to what they've got, or trying to catch up stay that way and hang on to what they you know what they've got or trying to catch up, I would say, like I like the idea of, like staying close to the mothership, so whatever that means, like reading supportive books, talking to people who are trying to do the same thing you're trying to do, reading following people, like cleaning up your social media, so you're only following people that are really speaking positively about the changes you're trying to make Like all those things will really help you and reinforce you in your desire to go that direction, and that it takes what it takes. You know, many of us go in and out of the ditch for a long time until we, like you said, something convergence occurs and something magical happens. And there we are and we're clearer.
FLORENCE:Yep, yep, yeah, something just starts. We start to land our stick, our lands, or is that? I'm thinking about the gymnasts and the olympic? Yeah, can they, can they land it? Can this, can it stick? Yeah, yeah, oh, sorry, there's just one more thing. I was going to ask you. Just give me a second for my brain to bring it back up. I know you have a doctor husband. You are a fourth generation physician. You lived in the labs. You're all about science. Was there a bit of a journey in getting over the fear that you'd be criticized by the science world that you grew up in and live in?
DR SARAH:Oh yeah, I remember fantasizing or joking to somebody when I was on my sabbatical and I was going to ask for more time off, cause I was kind of thinking I can't, three months isn't enough, so I wanted to extend it to six months and I fantasized about calling them and being like hey guys, I'm getting all these really cool messages from wild animals and so, like I just can't come back just now, I'm wondering if I can. You know if you could live without me for another three months. You know, but the truth is I never would have said that to them, cause I would just been so horrified. I did publish a book, like six months after I stopped that sabbatical, or is it somewhere. I mean, I did come out with a book and but it definitely I felt a lot of safety, um, with certain groups. So I wouldn't have outed myself directly to any of the guys my practice partners, probably that year or even maybe two years afterwards, but, um, now I'm completely open about it, but I had a lot, yeah, oh, now it's like my life. I mean, sometimes I forget how weird I am, but, like you know how it is, um, I think I felt a lot of safety I had. It was part of a coach training I. So I made a lot of friends really fast that were very supportive and loving. Um, I had an editor that was very supportive and loving and I just, you know, my friends and family supported me too, like I shared what was going on with me.
DR SARAH:I remember one night I I had a couple one friend who's a very high power attorney in a power company and not you know, another one is a cardiologist, another one who's like a brilliant interior designer who runs this very successful business, and telling them about this animal stuff, and I thought, oh God, they're just, they're going to get upset or they're going to think I'm flaky. And that night, like they all way got into it and then some crazy things happen. Like one friend, I was like, um, yeah, we were describing this owl, cause she's like I think I might be an owl. And then I remember we were reading that owls like they have one ear lower than the other. That's like one of their physical characteristics. And she lifted up her hair and for the first time, none of us had ever seen this. But she has one ear that's dramatically lower than her other one. And we all just went, okay. I mean, it was stuff like that over and over again that we all just I felt very supported, I think so.
FLORENCE:That's amazing. Yeah, that's very supported, I think so. That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. That is so cool. Uh see, yeah, that's.
FLORENCE:And then the and people like you, allow the rest of us to lighten up and just just relax. Have fun with this. Roll with it. What's the harm? What's the harm in thinking cat? You know what I could tell you, sarah? I can tell you a true story. Oh my gosh, I was thinking I don't have any stories. I do have a story.
FLORENCE:My father was a sailor. Between the ages of 10 and 15, I grew up on a boat. We sailed around the world. He retired early and, uh, we were. So I was not on the boat at this time.
FLORENCE:This is a story for my father and he was, and I forget where it was I, we were on the boat on and off, for he stayed on the boat for 30 years. I was on the boat between the ages of 10 and 15. And my mom at that point? I have two younger sisters. My mom, when I was about 15, just turning 16, said to her my dad, her husband honey, I have never seen you happier. This is your thing. This is your thing.
FLORENCE:And we've got three young girls that I'm homeschooling. I don't think I'm doing a great job. They flop overboard and they swim to shore. They make friends with who knows who. They take off all day and you know, eventually maybe they make it back for dinner and you know, I think I'm worried they're going to turn out really weird. I think they're going to be weird. I think I'm going to go back to Canada, let them finish their education. You know we'll, we'll come back and forth and we'll visit and you know they they were, they were going to try and figure that piece out and that was the plan.
FLORENCE:So my father carried on and this is one of his stories and I think, if I'm not mistaken, he was off off of South Africa and he, his boat, was a being. There was these ambush of dolphins, dolphins or porpoises, whichever, and they were. They kept sort of there was a whole bunch of them. They were like they were out of disney world or sea world, right like they were flying into the air, right up against the bow of the boat, and he was like, what are they doing? They're gonna hit the boat. And he was at the front, he was looking at them and they were growing in numbers and they were just like flying into the air towards the bow of the boat and he was like they're going to hit the bow of the boat.
FLORENCE:Anyways, eventually he thought, well, it was must've been intuitive. He's he's no longer alive. I'd love to ask him some details around this, but eventually something occurred to him. I think I'm going to move the boat more to the right. So he adjusted the river, the rudder, the sails, right, like he adjusted the boat. So, you know, he started to go away from where the these dolphins just kept sort of rising up into into the, up into the ocean and sort of almost cramming into the front of the boat. Turns out there was coral reef scene where I lost his life.
DR SARAH:Oh my gosh, yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah. This is what I'm talking about, florence. It doesn't stop. It's just amazing. Okay, you're like so fascinating, you got to write a book woman who doesn't want to read? About a child who was practically raised at sea. I mean, that sounds like a wonderful book, but anyway, I do digress.
FLORENCE:I think I should be part of your freak book. Definitely, definitely. Yeah, it was such a moving story and he realized later that that those oceans were known and those dolphins were known. It wasn't just they were known to do that, they were known to save sailors. So incredible, so incredible. Sarah, sorry, was I getting you off? No, no, no.
DR SARAH:It's good. Just thank you for sharing that. It's a beautiful story.
FLORENCE:Yes, and thank you for sharing your story. Let me just last question Tell us about the transformation that you experienced in body, mind and spirit. You know pre-sugar and post being a whole food woman, right when you were in the junk, and what would? Your life was like now? Just to kind of bring that home.
DR SARAH:Yeah, it's like there's this peace and calm, like all my energy now is fueled towards you know what creative stuff I want to do, or conversations I'm going to have with my collaborator and my my business, before then when I'm in, when I was in the food, it's just like my brain is constantly consumed with what did you eat for this and what are you having for dinner. You know, like this constant battle that was going on and they don't really realize it until you get out of it and then you just feel really calm. I'm still aware of the fact that that part of me that wants to overeat is still there, like I'll finish my breakfast and there'll still be a part of me that was like, oh, I would love to have three more eggs and some cheese on it, whatever. But I'm just like, yeah, we, yeah, but lunch is coming, you know, and that's in a few hours, we'll be all right, and then I go back to, you know, living my life. But I think it's just that peace and calm around that one element, because life has got so much already stirring us, stirring me up. Anyway, it's such a relief not to have that on top of all the other stuff. And so and again, confidence. Like I have been like putting myself out there in so many ways that I guess I just I feel like that has to do with that too. Like I trust myself and it's all good.
DR SARAH:Like lately I've been making a lot of art and people are like, how are you doing that? How are you, where did you? Why are you putting it out for sale and you're just expecting that people will buy it? Or and I'm just like, well, I don't, I don't know if they're going to buy it or not, but I'm certainly just going to put it out there and I'm just having a blast doing it and I love it. It just yeah, it's mostly the peace. I guess that's the thing. But that's the only thing most of us want in the first place. I mean, everybody I coach, everybody wants to be on a beach or retire because they think that's going to bring them peace, and it may for a while, but usually your thinking will come back or whatever. You know, the troubles will come back, whatever they are. There'll be trouble on the island, on the tropical island, so I guess that's the main ingredient.
DR SARAH:I need to make a list about that. I've seen some really fun lists where people have generated all the things that have changed. I think that's powerful to look at that, and just the joy of getting dressed going oh my gosh, like I love my. I love and appreciate my body. It is not perfect, it's not about the number on the scale, it's just about I feel good. I know it's being fueled Exactly. I'm doing everything I can to make my body as good as and healthy as it can be right now, and I'm human, so I mean it's, you know it's. I'm of the nature, as Technon Han says to, to to grow old and get diseased and die one day, but right now I'm doing everything I can to take care of myself and my body. I feel that appreciation back for my body, like there's a contentment there and a peace there that was not there when I was in the food.
FLORENCE:Sarah, thank you so much for your time today. What not there when I was in the food? Sarah, thank you so much for your time today. What a pleasure to meet you and share you Such a joy. Thank you, Florence. Thanks everybody for tuning in.
